An Interview with Christina Chu

By Hwang Yin

Reversion, reunification or handover - what's in a name? As Hong Kong marks its fifth anniversary as a Special Administrative Region (SAR) of China, how do the city's residents view the event? This seemingly simple question is underpinned by issues pertaining to culture and identity, and ultimately, has important implications for a people's self-respect and national pride. Even though art and culture develop and evolve with economic and social conditions, the Culture and Heritage Commission (CHC), a high-level advisory body formed in 2000, has set out in its `Terms of Reference' the necessity of `fostering a sense of belonging and cultural identity among the public'. While Hong Kong is grounded in Chinese culture and looks to the mainland for its future, it must be remembered that it owes its reputation as an international city to its colonial past - these are elements which make Hong Kong special. While they can induce cultural schizophrenia, they can also be harnessed to promote a harmonious duality. The CHC believes that museums have an important role to play in all this. How can Hong Kong `reposition' its museums to reflect its uniqueness? Christina Chu, Chief Curator of the Hong Kong Museum of Art (HKMA) speaks to Hwang Yin, Associate Editor of Orientations, about the role of museums and education, and the use of art in this character-building process. In response to the CHC's call for ideas on thematic museums, Chu has proposed the establishment of a `Museum of Ink'. As an active promoter of contemporary Chinese painting on the world stage, Chu believes that the medium possesses all the necessary qualities that reflect the vitality, plurality and modernity of Hong Kong, without losing its `Chineseness'. Shedding light on the world of black and white, Chu explains her vision for this specialized museum and argues for its viability. At a time when the international Chinese community is reclaiming its past and redefining its heritage, and increasing numbers of international artists are drawing inspiration from the arts of Chinese ink, a pipe dream may become reality.

Christina Chu at the HKMA's cafe with Wucius Wong, Hong Hai, Kao Mayching, Johnson Chang and others

Orientations: You have been with the museum in its various incarnations since 1978 and have obviously witnessed some of the most significant changes in the cultural landscape of this city. Can you briefly describe them?

Christina Chu: In 1962, Hong Kong had a temporary museum and gallery which occupied the top two floors of City Hall in Central. I remember going there when I was young; one would see `bits and pieces' displayed in a rather old-fashioned style - Hong Kong paintings and various types of archaeological material like stones and implements. In 1969, I left Hong Kong and was away for about ten years. I came back briefly when I completed my first degree in art history but there were no job opportunities. When I finally returned in 1977, the situation had still not changed. For a while, I wondered around getting odd jobs and in October 1978, I joined the museum as an assistant curator in Chinese painting and calligraphy. At the time, the curatorial staff consisted of one curator and two assistant curators, one in charge of Hong Kong and international art, and the other, Chinese antiquities. I was sent to study for a diploma in museology at the University of Manchester the following year. The museum, then known as the Hong Kong Museum and Art Gallery, housed both the present-day Museums of Art and History. In 1975, the government decided that the museum's existing premises were too small and the Museum of History was moved to Star House. Under the management of the Urban Council, the 1970s and 1980s were a period of energetic expansion for the Museum of Art. There was a maturation in the museum's basic outlook. It was the council that was probably responsible for the greatest changes in museum function, outlook and regionalization. The outlook was regional, with an emphasis on services for Hong Kong people. While we continue to promote and preserve Hong Kong art, our scope as a regional museum was widened first to include the Pearl River delta and then the rest of China, so the tone was set `Hong Kong - China - the World'. The Cultural Centre was completed under the aegis of the Urban Council. In 1991, when the HKMA moved from City Hall to Tsim Sha Tsui, it became part of the Cultural Centre landscape. The abolition of the democratically elected Urban Council ushered in another era of change for the HKMA. The museum is now managed by the Leisure and Cultural Services Department, which is overseen by the Home Affairs Bureau. This is an evolutionary development, and the changeover has signalled another phase of review. The Hong Kong Museum of Art sprang out from a traditional institution whose core functions were collection, preservation and exhibition. Research has developed along this path. When the Chief Executive initiated an overall review of cultural policy two years ago, the institution was of course studied, and its viability and social function considered. A consultation paper is currently in progress and will be issued soon. They are also in the process of engaging an international consultant to make recommendations. Thus from the two floors of City Hall there are now five main museums - the Art, History, Heritage, Space, and Science museums and the Art Development Office, an offshoot of the Visual Arts Centre.

O: The fifth anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong SAR may be considered a milestone, and a period for reflection and assessment. From the viewpoint of a resident and a curator, what does the museum represent and what are the roles it can play in the life of the city?

"World of Meditation" By Gu Wenda (b. 1955), 1985 Hanging scroll, ink on paper Height 276 cm, width 175 cm Hong Kong Museum of Art

CC: The museum is an emblem of the city and a focus of communal spirit and pride. A modern museum can be a community centre where people can come and meet friends, but as an institution, it has to change with society. How does it work together with a country and its people and what is the role of art? Art and music play a vital role in fostering creativity in people. The harmony they bring is very important to mental health. Hong Kong is a very commercial city whose basic driving force is its competitive society. While we push ahead for our material well-being, we must not forget the spiritual. The museum as a social institution in the present confusion of the city is very complex. There are a lot of mechanisms encroaching on its survival, so how you deal with all these factors, whether singly or collectively, is no guarantee of success. Our primary obligation is to promote the appreciation of art, aesthetic education, good taste to the level of abstract thinking, with some room for imagination for the people who come here. This is also making options available for our citizens. Art is as important as history, science and sports. It is the responsibility of the government to provide choice and exposure, especially for the young. Leisure services, art and culture are really about giving laid-back, non-oppressive free choice with no worry of dire consequences. You live a full life if you have that, you don't miss a meal or a dollar less in your account - that is how an affluent society lives, and we are moving towards that. We must also consider the people left behind - too much social tension is not going to be good for societal development. We have to do serious demographic studies on our future development, especially with our large aging population.

O: Hong Kong is still new to the postcolonial community. History has shown that such emergent societies are often in a state of flux, and are confronted by issues of both survival and identity. While the issue of survival within Greater China is often the subject of public discussion and is well documented, would you say that identity is something the people of Hong Kong are fully conscious of?

CC: In terms of the museum, I think the last ten years have been the most demanding, and this is where I've witnessed the most changes, especially in the context of the `maturing' and coming of age of the Hong Kong identity, and the great shock of reversion to China. The Cold War is not completely behind us and the Iron/Bamboo Curtain has still not been totally demystified. There is this ominous feeling as many people are still haunted by the suffering of their parents and grandparents, so the China-Hong Kong entity will have to prove itself first. But we must remember that the outlook is one of optimism - no more nightmares! For myself, I have no problems with my Chinese identity in Hong Kong. I was born in 1949 and have followed the social ebbs and tides both here and on the mainland. It is different for those born in the 1970s, because of the Cultural Revolution. They have no sentimental or romantic illusions about China like I do. The `China' I talk about transcends geography and politics. It is cultural; it is notional. My initial training in the Western arthistorical tradition has put me in a very comfortable perspective, because I can look at myself from afar and understand my culture through other people's eyes. This gives you a sense of security about yourself. The tragedy of Chinese culture has come from one century after another of Western incursion, political humiliation and eradication of national dignity. The word `China' itself predicates some kind of backwardness because it is about a power structure. The matrix is one where there is a centre and everything else becomes marginalized. Using what happens at the centre as a benchmark may connote a level of progress, but there is value and differentiation in it already. At the moment the world is Eurocentric and anything outside is marginalized. For Hong Kong and the rest of the Third World, the world is a dichotomy of East and West, but the world today is really much bigger than the West. We really have to take people's vision and expand the focus to all other cultures. So what are we talking about when we talk about globalization? We are talking about pluralism and diversity. Unless we properly position our culture within a pluralistic global setting, unless we regain our personal dignity through pride in our own culture, we will never be able to conduct a dialogue with anybody on an equal basis. Emotionally, this is really important. The situation and attitude is hard to reverse but it is imperative that we do it - that is why we have a permanent department of Chinese antiquities. Cultural achievement is also based on what is acceptable as a political-economic centre; it is a very peculiar relationship that shouldn't be. Within the centre, there is classical Chinese art, Indian, Egyptian and Mesopotamian art, all of which are considered highly advanced. But what has brought about this downgrading, this negative sentiment, response and reflexes? It is economic and political trashing that has brought down our culture.

O: Do you feel that this is in some way changing? How can communal spirit and national pride be fostered through the museum?

CC: Economic prosperity is a major factor, it leads to material well-being which gives people hope. The body has to be fully catered for before we are able to have time for the mind. In one century of chaos, many Chinese are insecure; that applies to many other nations as well. You can see the state of a nation through simple things like the greeting of the people. It is an indication of cultural orientation and sentiment, albeit a marginal one. As a child, I thought my mother was silly when at three in the afternoon she would ask a friend or the security guard in our building: `Have you eaten rice?' I now realized whether you have had food already was an indicator of how well the day has gone by for you. In the West, we say `How was your day?'; it shows that you're not concerned about food anymore, you're concerned about spiritual well-being, your state of mind. Education is important. The emphasis would be on the young. There are three partners in the process: the school, the family and the museum. But for social expectation of what a museum can contribute, one also has to look at the amount of resources budgeted for such services. Less than two per cent is set aside for art and culture in the government budget, and just over twenty per cent in the regular government school system. Just think of the statistics: 400 secondary and 800 primary schools with 15 museums. Museum visiting is not worked into the curriculum as schedules are so tight - there are usually only about two outings a year. So it is really for parents to bring their children to the museum. On one level, the general sentiment is on the pessimistic side, but I'm personally very optimistic about Hong Kong's potential. I think it is very heartening to see young people thinking and asking questions. It is a kind of knowledge which is oriented differently from school: words are mind-oriented, while the visual draws on your inner resources in the reception of the message. When children look at things, they respond differently from us. I think you must never underestimate children's power of comprehension and the scope of their references when they look at art objects. Once you give them rules and regulations, it is limits their imagination. I think it is important for young children to vegetate - just sitting in front of a work of art and not knowing at the beginning what is it saying and eventually conducting a dialogue with it. This is very inspiring and revealing because art doesn't demand anything, it is very giving, you don't have have to give anything back.

O: You were confirmed as Chief Curator of the HKMA in December last year, what is your vision for the museum?

CC: My vision for the future is to collect the best of Hong Kong art and to assemble an adequate pool of objects for study, development and writing of art history, and to introduce people to a great culture. This will give them a greater opportunity for understanding themselves and the world. Basically you have to build a frame of reference to compare and understand your place in the world. I think it is very important to place things in the cultural context - both in terms of material as well as intellectual resources. I'm trying to expand the world view of our visitors. That is why we had the Indian miniature exhibition last year. I want to have good exhibitions from traditional cultures and modern cutting-edge ones from ancient cultures - this can show us what the world has come to. This is my plan, but we just have to take it one step at a time. I've been thinking about the scope of the museum and a game plan for its future. Lately, I've started think of the stamp collection I had as a child. Stamps are really a miniaturized and very convenient way to see the world - their beautiful designs are like a micro-gallery, and then there are all these countries they represent, you start by finding their place on the globe and then learning about national sports, flowers and major events through their subject-matter. When I began to see things this way, things became very simple. Because of the cut-throat competition from popular culture, marketing a museum is very important. There has got to be a path of delivery to the visitor. You look at the display and it attracts you so you want to go deeper. However, designing programmes has a lot to do with money.

O: A lot of museums feel that thematic programmes especially `blockbuster' shows are a way of bringing up attendance and prestige. Do you feel that is the way ahead for the HKMA?

CC: There are really only a handful of museums in the world that are able to pull together that kind of show. The funding arrangements are very complex - national institutions, endowments, trusts, etc. There's no way we can borrow shows like that. Our exhibition and acquisition budget is HK$12 million, of which HK$4 million is set aside for acquisition and with the remainder, a sum equivalent to US$1 million, we have to do several exhibitions a year.

O: But couldn't this be mounted in Hong Kong itself where there is a pool of curatorial skill and an enthusiastic community of collectors and connoisseurs? I remember a brilliant exhibition on contemporary Chinese painting which you mounted some years ago which travelled to Singapore, London and Cologne. There were many works of superb quality lent by private collectors in Hong Kong and that left an imprint on my mind of what the HKMA could do.

CC: Yes, `Tradition and Innovation' in 1995 - that was actually a very inexpensive exhibition and we are still getting compliments about it! Actually it was the beginning of a dream. The motivation was really to educate people as to the level of achievement in Chinese painting through a collection of good works of art. At the time I put Gu Wenda at the end and everybody was scratching their heads. It was a a controversial exhibition to even start organizing because a lot of people think that Chinese painting died with Wu Changshuo and the 1911 Revolution. The original intention had been to fill a fissure between tradition and modernity - so putting Gu at the end was a wonder - very provocative and unorthodox - we saw the gesture as the overture to a major quintessential show. If we cannot showcase the best of contemporary artistic creativity, there is no way we can assert our cultural pride. There is no point telling the world how great our ancestors were if we cannot show people what this generation is doing or not doing. Several collectors and historians were querying me as to the concept and selection of the exhibition. I said: `You may see it as a very subjective selection but it is supposed to be a historical survey, and it is about quality.' If you have a good work of art, you do not have to supplement it with words or essays. My work in the museum is to make people look and not read. Reading can be done outside and conducted anywhere.

O: You and the museum have emerged from this project as tireless proponents for the cause of contemporary Chinese ink painting. The Culture and Heritage Commission is currently considering proposals for more thematic museums in Hong Kong. I believe you have submitted a novel proposal for the establishment of a Museum of Ink. Why only ink?

CC: I've been thinking about it for some time, even before the 1995 show. It sounds like a narrow theme, and seems very traditional but it is really concerned with modernity. I wanted to show that creativity is very much alive and kicking in China. I began thinking about it culturally in a global context, how I could extract the narrative from economics and politics. What began as an interest, has continued as a career and maybe it is is now my personal demon! It has become so big, it is almost overwhelming. The achievements of Chinese painters are amazing. Ink painting is such an elevated form of expression. Aesthetically it is both the essence and manifestation of composite literati culture because it involves poetry, painting, prose, history, religion, philosophy and even statecraft. Ink painting is the conveyor of all these cultural properties and is part of the world's cultural heritage. When you think about its more than 1,000 years of continuous development, it may be China's greatest contribution to the world. Ink painting as a language, a vehicle for artistic expression, is here to stay. It is not just about painting, there is also calligraphy, and I'm also going to introduce print because literati culture is about the `word' and its power. China invented printing; through it we were able to propagate ideals. For example, calligraphy is about abstract aesthetics, even within the modern Chinese script - it is still the only functional language which encompasses aesthetics and function. In every other culture, the functional script has shed the original aesthetics that come along with the script. This is a national treasure. If you look into China nowadays, there are very good statistics for reference, because you have art associations at national, provincial, prefectural and village levels. According to statistics, there are over a million people painting, doing art and practising calligraphy. A Chinese scholar once told me how he was astounded by the amount of calligraphy and ink painting he found when he returned home. If that many people are doing it you have got to have some quality.

O: How can the wonders of the medium be presented?

CC: You can start with one subject and ramify it into anything. This is the age of lateral learning, and I think art encompasses a lot of that. Art history as a discipline has changed too - it is more topical with postmodern approaches and an emphasis on cultural context. Beyond this, the ink museum is really a mental hobby for me - I think about how I can put various themes neatly into a narrative structure. Another line of enquiry which I want to pursue from the viewpoint of ink painting is the understanding and interpretation of what creativity is. It has often been said that Chinese painting is imitative, repetitive with no individuality and creativity. But behind this criticism, you have to scrutinize what you mean by `creativity' in the West - if you look at art and music, the sequence of development since the Renaissance has been revolutionary, one wave after another of drastic reorientation in aesthetics, form, rhythm and shape. By contrast, the progress is evolutionary in China; it is because of this process that Western theorists tend to refute the inherent creativity intrinsic to this kind of development. The evaluation of progress has to be reassessed. While we speak in terms of globalism and cultural exchange these days, how do we position an enclosed system like 17th century China? What do you call the artistic product which shows up? Some people may think I'm particularly patriotic and nationalistic - well, it is not about me but about Hong Kong, China and the World. It is just that I have a deeper understanding of the subject, I've studied it for a long time and there is something that fascinates me that I wish to share and propagate. The sharing of information, knowledge and understanding contributes to a healthier understanding of yourself.

O: Doesn't the HKMA already fulfil many of these functions? Why do you perceive that there is a need for such a specialized museum and why would Hong Kong be an ideal choice? What might make it more viable than other proposals?

CC: The position of Hong Kong and its history gives us the edge of knowing what the other side is lacking, but we also have the edge of knowing something of that the other side does not know. This may be a flux or an interchange in our frame of reference, ethics or values, but we have detachment. We need a platform that is an anchoring point for cultural dialogue. Although we do a lot, it lacks focus. If we have an authoritative institution that conducts the work properly, it can be a first-class showcase for the best quality artistic production of China. It can also serve as a centre for research, cultural exchange and further refinement of methodology and understanding. The institution will of course have to prove itself first. You have to get recognition before you can arbitrate on taste and impact the market. There is good potential for turning Hong Kong into the international marketing centre for contemporary Chinese painting because we have the benefit of having an auction base here; even economically speaking, it would be a niche. Many of the best-quality works are in private collections here. There are such wonderful paintings in Hong Kong, and all these collectors are so enthusiastic about the idea. The most important thing is to get the project going and to put those wonderful paintings up for the world to see. It is possibly the most viable architectural project for Hong Kong because the content is already there, the fabrication of the project is cheaper than anything you want to build from scratch. It would help to transform Hong Kong into an upscale, upmarket, gracious, and eventually intellectually elevated world city of good taste and sophistication. As one of the various theme museums that have been presented to the Cultural and Heritage Commission for consideration, the Museum of Ink will still have to gain the general acceptance of the people.

O: Is there a lot of support for it?

CC: Yes, from arts administrators, collectors and architects. It is unique and something that the world, especially the international Chinese community will be interested in. So I think it is a great cultural touristic venture with manifold implications. I think that it is a viable way to launch the market. Many museums around the world are beginning to collect Chinese paintings, albeit haphazardly, as international art. The market is moving up and contemporary artists are getting great recognition in the world. This is a way of consolidating the events going on all over the world and to project it onto one platform and to engage in dialogue. What can be more meaningful than that? I derive so much pleasure from just talking about it. It is exciting for me to discover that once I mention it to non-Chinese, even those who are marginally exposed to Chinese art, are excited.

O: Presentation will be an important factor. Visibility and visuality are important factors for showcasing the works of many contemporary artists working in the medium of Chinese ink today. Naturally the sort of space that's required for it has also to be considered. Ink is a theme that universally reflects modernity - much as we don't like to use polarizing labels like `East' and `West', globalization and mass migrations of the past century have led to shared values, crosscurrents and influences.

CC: The urban surroundings, the pace of life, the need for leisure, and time management has changed the presentation of art in modern-day living. Consideration must be given to the change from intimate to public space and to scale. Visual impact is a re-engineering of an entire system of internal aesthetics and dynamics. That is why a lot of people look at the 20th century as a period of degeneration for Chinese art, but I tend to look at it as the most dynamic because there were such earth-shattering changes in every aspect - methodology, aesthetics, criticism, material presentation from the creative process to the delivery. This energy, the modern dynamics of Chinese art, should be properly showcased. Of course, it may be too progressive for some people because I am trying to open up the elements of `ink' `water' and `brush', and anything that is derivative of the media, as well as the concept. I would like to break the pigment down to the two-dimensional, and then bring it out three-dimensionally. It seems such a wonderful subject for both metaphysical speculation as well as scientific analyses. What is black? What is white? With the aesthetics of black and white, one can bring all sorts of artefacts into play, even Greek vases, ebony, Song ceramics. You can then began to isolate artistic elements like qiyun, poetry, prose, and seal-carving.

O: Where do you envisage such a museum being located?

CC: My colleague has the wonderful idea of building it on an island. Is this crazy? I think it can be done but it has to be promoted as a `destination' spot with a list of activities. But when people think of museums they think of a spot, with certain perceptions.

O: I think a lot of us have preconceived notions of how a museum should be or how things should be presented. To many of us, museums are still a form of high culture and we often forget about the importance of simply looking and observing, but ultimately it is the work itself and the audience it reaches that matters. Your beliefs were clearly put into practice at recent HKMA shows. This could be clearly seen in the `black room' at the recent Li Keran exhibition and the arrangement of works according to style in the present Wu Guanzhong exhibition. Do you feel the message is getting across?

CC: Unless you have a lot of writing on the wall, some people will say that it is the lazy way of doing it. You cannot keep shoving things at people, you have to draw people in. If one takes the time to sit down, things will emerge from a work of art. I keep telling myself and my colleagues you just have to believe in what you are doing, because the result of what we do if it is well done will not be perceptible in our lifetime so it has to be conviction that keeps us going - lacking that you should find another job. In approaching art, there are two levels of appreciation - one that is sensory, emotive and intuitive, and one that is intellectual. Looking at objects unfamiliar to you is a way to train broadmindedness. Regardless of whether something is visual, conceptual, a sign or a language, people immediately resent, reject or are suspicious of things that they have not been exposed to. Unfamiliarity is intrusive, but with repetition it transgresses into familiarity, and then your feeling of alienation with unfamiliar encounters becomes neutralized. Unlike verbal and literary material, visual art is a lot more subtle, even with political, ideological and social connotation. Often, the ambiguity of visual images gives one a lot of room for speculation and reflection. I think it is very good for cultural exchange, as a good artist can reach and touch people by projecting the totality of his mental being and emotional output through his work. Seeing the work itself is like being in touch with the artist: even in a totally neutral background you can still connect that's the power of art.